00:00:00 
And I think the number one thing is that you have to know your limitations and dare to lean on others. I was very lucky, I would say, Because I had people around me, both in my political career and also before that in my legal career. I am also have a master's of law that dared to trust in me early. Actually, gave me a chance to show what I could do. And yeah, assuming office as Minister of Justice regardless of age, I think it comes with a huge responsibility that you are not going to be able to solve on your own. When you need to realize that early.
00:00:45 
Okay. And how did you manage this balance, I guess, between ambiguity and sort of entering new territory and having to make decisions? Really affect other people as well as just yourself. So, How did you sort of go about that? And how did you get drawn from some of these?
00:01:05 
Um, you know, the political engagement for me started my last year of high school. I was eighteen and it was very organic, I would say. It didn't start as a career ambition.;. It was because I really cared about my local school and kind of the services that my community would get. And this, Um, I mean, My plan was never to become a politician full time ;. It was to become a lawyer. And and I brought with me this like personal engagement. It's very value driven to be in politics, I would say into all of the rooms I entered when I was a minister of justice or a member of parliament. So like you, you're never there for your own, like you're never making a decision for yourself. ;. Uh, you're always.
00:01:57 
Like representing someone else. When you're elected to parliament, for example, you're just you're a representative of the people in your constituency, and that's kind of like so yeah. So, you're not there in the in the in the power of being yourself.; you're there because like someone gave you the trust to represent them, and that was something I felt quite conscious about like going into it.
00:02:19 
Yeah and how do you deal with that ambiguity thing? So, when you've got a big decision to make or a recommendation that you have to follow through on. And you don't necessarily have the perfect data. I know many of us in our roles sort of struggle with the fact that non perfect data doesn't help necessarily when you are trying to make a big decision. What's your approach? How do you go about making a decision anyway?
00:02:42 
Um, well, There is in decision making in government. There is a lot of procedural rules for the bigger ones, of course, and you have, A huge amount of expert staff inputs. You have input from the constituencies. There is like a lot of input from different stakeholders, and for me, I think it was important for me to feel confident that I kind of understood the broadness of the case. That I had like if there was like some blind spots, I think that's you have to question yourself like.
00:03:25 
Is it possible to like resolve this uncertainty? Or is it something that you have to make the decisions with? I think like once you resolve all the uncertainties that can be resolved, In the end, it's a difficult way back and forth, of course, between different interests, but it looks different every time.
00:03:55 
Try to get as much information as possible and also kind of leave the decision once it's made until something unless something new comes up about it. Very good.
00:04:07 
And apart from dealing with ambiguity, which we all do, Most leaders, and it came up in the previous conversation with Halgrar as well, are thinking about how to build trust and are conscious of the importance of trust in good leadership. So how did you go about building trust with your prime minister? With your team, with peers, with the public, the electorate. Especially, why maybe you were still finding your footing and finding your own way through things.
00:04:33 
Yeah, I think one very big strength of the government. I was part of it was a two party coalition government, which means that there's two parties trying to cooperate that have like different interests. Sometimes different values maybe wants to go in different direction, but I always had the sense that we wished each other well. And I don't, I've only been in this government, but I don't think that's something you take for granted. It's a kind of a culture that we managed to create from the beginning. And within that, maintaining like honesty towards each other, being transparent, I think is super important. And also as I said mentioned a bit earlier for me, I was very lucky to have people very experienced people leaders.
00:05:23 
At the time, Prime Minister and the Minister of Finance gave me trust, and I knew that they would have my back. So even if there was a. I mean, of course, If I had like been involved in corruption, for example, it would be like a red line. But I knew that they would not let me down as long as I did my job properly. That was super important. I knew that I could trust them and I also tried to apply that to the people that I work with.
00:05:56 
And How did you go about building your team? So, were you looking for certain characteristics to complement your skills, or I won't answer the question for you, But how did you go about putting a team together that you felt was going to be what you needed to move forward?
00:06:10 
So we entered government on it was change of all the parties in government. The previous prime minister Anna Swedberg from the Conservatives she left with our government and the current prime minister. Answered. So everyone was new, and you don't get a very long head notice before you become a minister, So we had like I think I had like one week or something to put together a team. And, it was really looking for people that could that we believed had like a good background for the responsibilities of the ministry.
00:06:53 
That we could trust, that we had some sort of yeah belief in, I would say. But it's all about human chemistry; it boils down to human chemistry actually. And right, yeah,
00:07:04 
That kind of intuition maybe you get about people.
00:07:07 
And I am very proud of my team and I am very grateful because they were also, you know, super competent people, and yeah, some people that will probably stay in my life.
00:07:16 
And I don't want to kind of dwell on this too much, but you talked about you being a particularly young minister. Did you feel and do you feel that age was a your age was an advantage or disadvantage in the in the role that you played in government?
00:07:31 
I think other people thought discuss my age more than me. I like, I remember. I was just my age. I remember when I was like when I was asked to be Minister of Justice, I thought, i had like a very complex, It was more a feeling like I can do this job. I can't do it alone, like I said, but like i I felt capable. And.
00:08:00 
Have you always had that inner strength, that inner belief, Or did that come with the the opportunity to step into a role like that?
00:08:06 
I don't know actually how that came about in that particular role, But I can also tell you that i can feel very, for example, i came to INSEAD, and i am in classrooms with topics. I have never encountered like in my life, and i can feel very. Uncapable in those situations, So I guess it was more a feeling that you know, I had through my career already gotten a quite big, A good overview of the portfolio of like the political, how the political or how the political profession works. I had worked on a big case earlier this same year, the Italian engines case for those that remember. That was very.
00:08:48 
Maybe a sort of a breakthrough in my career, and yeah, I felt confident. But also promised myself from the first day, like don't let prestige make you or lead you to bad decisions. Don't be scared to like, for example, to civil servants be vulnerable and be honest that like this is an outside approach.
00:09:15 
And I am conscious that you know we're talking about it. Your leadership approach, how you built trust, but all this is going on in the context of a super demanding backdrop. So, you led through multiple crises in your role from the Kongsberg attack, which I think was literally just as you took office, the Oslo terror attack, the start of the war in Ukraine, the ensuing energy crisis. You know Can you think of one moment throughout all of that, that has stayed with you, perhaps particularly? And, can you give us an insight into what pressure really feels like at this kind of national responsibility level?
00:09:51 
Oh, yeah, I can take the night before we assumed office. It was so the government shift was going to be on October fourteenth, twenty twenty one. It was a Thursday. And as much as I said that I felt confident I could do the job, Like I also, i mean, how the inner life of the ministries really is. It's quite. It's not very visible to people outside, so I also didn't know like the practicalities. I was in an office in the parliament with my with one of my colleagues, And we sat there and were kind of going through like the next day under the uncertainty that we had. And then I got a call, which basically said that there was an ongoing possible terror attack in Kongsvang.
00:10:42 
It was like six thirty the night before, And essentially, that moving a bit forward in time. It meant that the whole government transition was happening in the middle of dealing with what could potentially be a terror attack. It was not at the time known. And I remember as I got the message, it was not a feeling of being scared or stressed or like "oh, whatever got myself into." It was more like a feeling about of like.
00:11:12 
Okay, then we start now. And it was a very calm kind of feeling. I knew that, I mean, we are in a very well-functioning democracy in Norway. I'm very grateful for that. I knew that or I pretty quickly got in contact with the former Minister of Justice Monica Maeland with the Ministry and the people that were dealing with it there and kind of kept updated until it was kind of my turn. And I think my main task was staying off the journalists. Just, they were very that night. It was still not officially known that I was going to be the one that was going to take this office the next day. But it had leaked, and my age had leaked, and it was a very big crisis going on. So, it was like a lot of yeah, a lot of tension.
00:12:11 
And did your calmness in that kind of very high pressure situation surprise you, or is that just how you are? You know, have you always just taken things in your stride and managed your way through?
00:12:23 
I think for me, I grew up with. I feel like I learned a lot of useful life skills on the way in many different ways. And I've often got the question like," How could you be minister at this age?" And I feel like the most important skills is really things I got from my personal life. For example, when I was six seven years old, my mom got seriously ill with mental disorders. That was hard to deal with. I've had to deal with suicide in my close family, so like some really big personal crises. And then when it was in my job, it was like.
00:13:10 
As much as it was a completely different setting, it's like still as a person you experience it in the same way. So, it was like something I've already been through. I have gained the tools you.
00:13:21 
Built up that resilience.
00:13:22 
And maybe some resilience, yeah. So, and I think that was very valuable. Like, some of the most important skills, at least that I feel like I have, I didn't learn in school as much as I really appreciate being here, but but it's just through living and. I try to tell, or if people ask me about this, I think like we all have that. You know, we've all lived a life. And yeah, I also grew up with farming. So that's where I think I got or am grateful for that because you early get some work ethics. Um, I think you know, my first professional skill was uh was like learning to milk a cow. And i knew that before i could even bike.
00:14:09 
And yeah, there's uh there's just a lot of takeaways from everything. So she's got the name,
00:14:13 
I think to say and help you as you go forward. Yeah, And is there anything that you wish? You know, this is a bit of a classic question. But is there anything you can think of that you wish that you'd known at the start of your your your journey as a minister in governmentum that you would kind of forewarn or or kind of tell your younger self?
00:14:33 
Well, That's I don't have to I'm a person on I don't like to have uh, regrets or like. Be too much dwelling on the past, Because especially I mean in the in the Ministry of Justice, like your your job is everything that can go wrong basically. It's about life and death, it's about the worst things that can happen. And so when those things do happen, It's really important to not only get caught up in that, but also manage to have a.
00:15:09 
Force forward to plan strategically. And the same thing goes for your personal life. If I had one advice to myself, Maybe I wish I understood a bit earlier that my that like it's very important to take care of yourself. Because in the beginning, I was like so full of energy, and i feel like i maintained that throughout the three and a half years that ended up being. My term, but as you stand under like very high pressure for a very long time, it's I think regardless of who you are, it will kind of get to you. And I had to experience that to understand that would kind of happen. Maybe I could have prevented it a little bit.
00:15:58 
Yeah, thank you for showing that. I'm just going to take a couple of questions. As you can imagine, there's been quite a few questions coming in from the floor, but we've got time for just one or two. The obvious one from this crowd is, why did you decide to study at INSEAD?
00:16:13 
I should have had an FAQ because I have that question all the time. So, I was looking or if I go one year back in time about exactly a year ago, I knew that we had an election in Norway. Uh, I knew that my seat was on the line and uh, I didn't know if I would keep it or lose it. So, I was going running for re- election and, She said she was twenty eight when she assumed office. High profile position, and I was thinking about my future. And I was like at a place in my life where I almost like had more questions than answers. When you are a politician, you make decisions all the time, and you also need to be very certain of what you are doing. And I am very certain where I stand politically and all of those things and the values.
00:17:06 
Things I envisioned for the Norwegian society. I'm not done with that, but I'm just so curious about the world. Like, there's skills I wanted to have that I kind of discovered through my profession or in my professional life. And I accidentally came across the MBA. Accidentally? Actually it was accidental, it was because.I can say how it happened. It was because.I was going to fly to Texas in the US.
00:17:36 
And it was going through Boston flights, which led me to think about the schools in Boston. And they have MBAs. And I started to do research. I hadn't heard, no, like I didn't know anyone with an MBA. And because this also had to be a secret because of the upcoming election, I couldn't really ask around. So um. I came across INSEAD this way and it kind of. I've ticked my boxes in a sense, so maybe I've been to the shop. And as it expectations,
00:18:12 
I mean that's that's the obvious following question.
00:18:15 
Absolutely, I feel so privileged. Um, I think we're all that even have been to the school. Or are there currently is is a huge privilege. And it's like, for me, it feels like I've been given like a canvas, and I can just spend my a year of to explore. And i mean, t here is exploring the world. Meeting people that challenge your perspectives, but also like exploring intellectually, I think it's at thirty two that I am now. It's not everyone gets that. So yeah,
00:18:50 
Right. And the last question is the one that many many people have asked, which is will you be returning to politics after your MPA?
00:19:04 
I have to ask.
00:19:10 
My path is being created as I watch. No, I am thinking about that. It's something I will have to come back to, But I am very grateful to get some insight into maybe a pillar of society being business, the private sector that. I haven't been in that much before, and I think, yeah, I mentioned the kind of more polarized situation that we operate in now. I think for me, Even the eight years that went from twenty seventeen when I first entered parliament to now it's been a big change. I also felt that as a politician, that it's like do I want to spend my life in this?
00:20:04 
I think it's a bit sad to say that, but yeah, Bridging perspectives and kind of trying to stay curious and stay open-minded. And like get a more broad perspective, myself, at least is maybe a path to hopefully countering some of those forces. So I thought I have an in-depth thank you so much.
00:20:38 
Yeah. It's like going from hell to devil's den. I certainly hope you're learning something at CIHR, but I rather suspect you have taught this forum something with your openness, candor and truthfulness. So thank you very much. You can have all now. I can have all of them? What? I can have all of them?
00:21:04 
And now, ladies and gentlemen, we take the conversation to the next level. Three CEOs, three industries. What conversation about what leadership looks like with the ground shift underneath our feet? One leads a renewable energy giant in a world of geopolitical tension. Another steers a renewable fuel company through profound sustainability reckoning. And finally. One is orchestrating one of Japan's most complex industrial transformations. Please welcome to the stage, Birgitte Ringstad Braadland, President and CEO of Start Craft; Heikki Malinen, President and CEO of Nextek; and Satoshi Koyama, Group CTO of Mineral Resources at Mitsubishi Corporation.
00:22:10 
Oh, it's Nestle, not Nestle. Okay. No, just Nestle unfortunately. Yeah. And so it's coming.
00:22:19 
That's all right, Heike. All right, well, Brigida Saboghi Heike It's a pleasure to have had conversations with you before this event, and it's a pleasure to finally see you here.
00:22:35 
Nobody needs us to tell them that the world is undergoing all kinds of disruptions at this point. All of you are in businesses that are, if you like, at the fulcrum of several of these disruptions. So I thought I'd start with inviting. All of you just talk about first brief introductions to your corporations. And then what do you see in the raging of this particular series of disruptions? What do you see as the principal challenges and indeed opportunities, if any, that face you at this point? Can we start with you, Brigida?
00:23:13 
Yes, sure. So Statoil is Norway's largest producer of renewable power, And we are actually quite happy about the rain because it's what we need in order to produce power. Sorry for everyone visiting. In addition, we are Europe's largest producer of. Renewable, and I took over as the CEO two years ago. And, we've done quite a heavy shift in the asset base. ;. We have sold a lot of the legacy, etc. So, when this kind of new crisis come up, I think two key topics for me is really the supply chain :. What happens to our activities, our projects' costs that are coming up. And then as a renewable producer, It's in a way hard to say, but it's also an opportunity because I think the.
00:24:01 
Security of supply topic is even higher on the agenda. So, The opportunities to build out more renewable and the support for more renewable is positive. And then it's also the uncertainty; it's really about having a strong balance sheet, making sound decisions, Have focus on cost all the things that you can control in this uncontrollable world.
00:24:27 
Thank you, Brigida. So Toshi? Yes so I work from Mitsubishi, Corporation which is one of Japan's largest corporations as you probably know. And I'm uh CEO of one of their seven verticals, which is the mineral resources. It's not that obvious that Mitsubishi is big in mineral resources. But if we were to go IPO today, we would be a top ten mining company. So, it's a large business. Andum at the same time,
00:24:54 
I'm also responsible for.
00:24:56 
Digital transformation across the company and AI deployment. So and those three ones are, Actually, interrelated. And what I have in mind right now actually four. First of all, we have this global fragmentation that is happening. And then we have energy security slash national security. Then, we have intelligence, and then we have government innovation. And again, all four of them are interrelated, why? Because you know, globalization.
00:25:30 
Is broken for some time, which means that we're going to have to rebuild the supply chain, and that's going to take a lot of time. Especially in the West world where we lost the manufacturing capabilities. So that's one of the biggest things. And in order to do that, you need critical minerals. Two on energy security and AI and national security. : We've been through two wars in the space of four years, and we learned the hard way that you know energy could be weaponized. And when you have in that kind of situation, you know that having access to abundant, Reliable and cost competitive energy is the only way to remain competitive as an industry. That's a matter of national security, so that's very important. Number three: intelligence. I said that on purpose because it has two meanings. One is the conventional meaning of intelligence, meaning gathering information, analyzing and reading geopolitical complexity.
00:26:29 
At the same time, the second intelligence is about artificial intelligence AI. AI is the most energy-intensive application that has been ever deployed, which means that it's going to be eating a lot of energy, and we're not prepared for that. So this is the first thing. And lastly, the fourth thing is about government intervention. And unfortunately, government wants to be more involved in the past than to be. Regulators. Now, in this war, in some countries they're becoming capital providers. So you're going to have to work with the governments to try to create, for example, a new supply chain that is more resilient.
00:27:13 
And when you say government, you don't just mean the Japanese government; you mean governments all over the world? All over the world.
00:27:19 
The US government is super active. Europe is a little bit behind. And of course China has been always government sponsored.
00:27:29 
I'll follow,
00:27:30 
But so I run Neste. Neste is the world's leading producer of renewable diesel and sustainable aviation fuel or SAF. Neste was the first company to invent these products and also the one pretty much created the markets in some ways. So we've been a front runner. The three main topics at the moment on, let's say, my in my mind are one is global trade and. Geopolitics, our business is tremendously global. So we operate in San Francisco, Singapore, in boardwalk Finland and we have two large facilities in the Netherlands in Rotterdam. And, we source our feedstock, which is cooking oil or used cooking oil, animal fat and novel vegetable oils from over sixty countries around the planet. So our ability to move, you know, source feedstock and move product around the world is vital.
00:28:28 
And so, global trade has been in many ways impacted by geopolitics, and that is unfortunately also creating challenges for us. The second, really big issue on our list is regulation because our business is completely dependent on mandates. And I think someone mentioned earlier that mandates are good. Well, In some ways, I have to also admit mandates are necessary in our business or incentives. And so, We saw after Ukraine when we had the first inflation spike, how the whole sustainability, let's say theme was pretty much disrupted. So, I am, of course, wondering what the impact of the Iran crisis is going to do to this sector. Is it going to be ultimately positive in the sense that everybody talks about energy security? Right. Or are we going to see challenges?
00:29:22 
And just the third practical thing is we're building a large refinery, one of the largest in the world now in Rotterdam. And I have to say, building making industrial projects in Europe is darn difficult. So.
00:29:38 
So let me just be clear:. So the nature of the business is bringing spent fuels from different parts of the world, bring them together to refine it right? And then refining them in a way that makes it useful. Correct? And so there are two kinds of supply chains. One is the input supply chain and the other is the output supply chain. Have I understood that correctly?
00:30:00 
In the US we collect, if you go to Burger King in the United States, we collect used cooking oil from 100, 000 kitchens in the United States as an example. That's a massive amount of microflows of molecules.
00:30:13 
Understood. Coming back to you, Brigitta, You mentioned the fact that everybody is dealing with uncertainty at this point, and that is absolutely correct. What uncertainties do you face that you folks, you should know, begin her background is in mathematics and she's also a financial risk analyst. So this is the reason I am putting the question to her. What uncertainty do you find it the hardest to manage right now?
00:30:46 
I think it's the sort of uncertainty about how global trade, how the cooperation will go. Like, we are super dependent on our supply chain from China on building new solar plants, also material for wind turbines, actually our turbines for our hydropower plants. A lot comes from China. And then seeing how that will develop, what requirements will the European Union, for instance, put on the supply chain made in Europe? How do we compete sort of with different suppliers? I think that's for me. One of the challenges that we see in our industry that is difficult to see an easy solution to because it's financially the most viable solution.
00:31:43 
It's a very competitive industry, So how do you compete if you don't go for the most financially viable solution? I think that is one element. And then there is another element which is support for renewable opposition, Local opposition, where we are building more structured misinformation about renewables that we see across Europe.
00:32:12 
Can you give us an example? Well, Actually, there was an article in a Norwegian newspaper that if it's raining, the wind turbine gets destroyed. And they used sources for like some professors, probably not from IIT, I think. But kind of a lot of these elements that are just wrong and misused can also be coming from people that would like to see disturbance.
00:32:42 
Information across. So I think all the all the things happening around us, not directly of the industry but more in the sort of surroundings, is part of the uncertainties. Yeah,
00:32:53 
We've seen some interesting reports in newspapers about what wind turbines in American newspapers have predicted about what wind turbines people who live near them and so on and so forth. So actually I've got a question that comes from left field: Is it in this. Very complex geopolitical environment. Is it easier in the sense that you have a relatively greater ease of negotiating it because you represent a Japanese corporation, or do you find that it makes no difference? I.
00:33:27 
Wouldn't say it's easier, But you have probably more flexibility than companies based in other countries because you have the ability to work with everyone. And I think there's a reputation that Japanese corporations, Very long term, so you have a kind of social license, and that really resonates with the community. For example, where you have to do business,
00:33:49 
So there is a uniform recognition across the world that Japanese investments are long term. I think so.
00:33:55 
I think so relatively yeah, relatively honest.
00:33:58 
So only from that perspective, not necessarily nationality or anything like that, because you're perceived as neutral in some areas sort of,
00:34:05 
But i i should be i should be open that. We have a difficult relationship. Right now, the claim between China and Japan. Yes, and that makes things a little complicated, of course.
00:34:17 
So when we spoke, Go Heike I mentioned the fact that your press brand is that of the turnaround CEO. Right? You said this is not your first rodeo at D esti; you've done this a few times before, and so on and so forth. How do you, You see the current situation you're in as, in some senses, a turnaround. And what do you find? How do these turnaround opportunities and challenges vary from the various situations you faced in the past? Particularly given the moment we find ourselves in today.
00:34:54 
I guess this well, turnaround is not a label I've attached to myself, But it seems to have been more of a coincidence that the companies I worked for have all been in a. You know, let's say a complex situation when I was recruited, And now once we've done it a number of times and they've gone pretty well, then of course maybe there is a bit of a label attached to it. I think every case is so unique; it's hard to make generalizations. But I think that maybe if I look at Nesta for example now, I think people talk about speed and focus.
00:35:35 
And discipline, and really being able to really efficiently prioritize activities. So we've done that at Nestle, and in a fairly short period of time, we've been able to make substantial progress in our financial results. And I think the five cases I've been involved in, I think two things I have to say which I found helpful. : one is, you know really setting ambitious goals organizations. When they really focus on something, they can be incredibly productive. And then the other is the importance of prioritization. I think in the case of Nestle, for example, We had a very we were prior to, let's say, when when the sustainability theme was really at its maximum height next day, expand Nestle expanded into many areas and disciplined into sort of.
00:36:32 
In some ways, force yourself to focus on certain key areas, even though it is painful for the organization. And I can tell you, we have a lot of projects which I would have loved to continue, but we just had to cut them. And that's sort of the discipline to cut and prioritize and do it efficiently. But in the way that you really communicate the rationale to your folks, and they understand and trust, you believe you, I think that is essential.
00:37:00 
So I'm going to switch teams now.
00:37:03 
I think all of you have kind of demonstrated perfectly that this a time of considerable turmoil, let's say, in the world. Right? This not a place where you can plan five years into the future. There's considerable change that is happening which places demands on you. Now, you're all leaders of significant organizations. My next series of questions is :. What do you believe your organizations need most from you at this point?
00:37:33 
Right, because the one thing you can't give them is certainty. Because nobody will believe you if you try and sell them certainty, right? So, how do you work out? What it is that your organizations need from you at this point, right? And what do you think that is? Let's start with you, Mike.
00:37:53 
Well, I have to say that Nestle is interesting in the sense that in my career before. I'd never joined an organization where I saw people who came to that particular company for a specific reason. So, I worked in many industries, and in Nestlé, I've met a lot of people, and they're not only young—okay, So different ages—who came there to really try to contribute to the well-being society and to advance the decarbonization of the planet. And would this be true around the world or just?
00:38:29 
No, around the world. No, definitely. And I think this is, and this has been sort of a challenge I've faced in the sense that when I refer to prioritizing, I've had to stop certain projects which were part of the legitimate portfolio. You know, how do you keep these people motivated? And I think now with a polarization. And this sort of ideology about, you know, are you? You know, pro fossil or pro sustainable low carbon fuels. And this. Tremendous media almost attack, even you know, regarding this industry. So, many of our employees are some of this in France are sort of concerned about, you know. So where is the journey going to take us? And I think you know, is our journey going to remain valid and will we continue down the path? Will there be a future right? And. So I think the role of the CEO is to build in some ways, hope clarity.
00:39:27 
And a very clear roadmap on how we're going to make progress and get there. I said, we constantly are fighting for talent and keeping the people there and motivated and contributing, especially on the science side, is absolutely critical. But as I said at Nestle, I see it's impressive how people have a passion beyond just a job.
00:39:51 
And at the same time you mentioned that you do have to trim projects, you do have to let things go. I imagine there is some amount of uncertainty amongst people about their positions in the open. So, How do you negotiate that while people are there with a sense of commitment to the purpose? How do you balance that?
00:40:09 
Well, unfortunately, we have had to reduce our headcount. But when I came almost two years, we did it almost immediately. So, I mean, That's been my learning: that if you have to reduce your fixed costs and you have to restructure it, speed is absolutely a essence. The sooner you do it, the better. And, then it was all about trying to heal the organization and start to build, you know, the next era. But I think a fundamental mistake, if you have to do a turnaround is to wait and postpone. And I think that's oftentimes for CEOs a fatal mistake. So speed in a turnaround is absolutely vital. So lance the boil early and then work as we're. I would use a softer term, but I think "lance" is an excellent.
00:40:58 
Our company published last year.
00:41:00 
I don't have enough support for it. Nothing's going to happen next week being fired people in Japan. It's just like the exit ops, so I'm seeing that, but because you know how to match the short term and the long term, how do you elevate that? So, you know, we have the interim goal and the view from the front end. And the short term means you know, You are listed corporation, Therefore, we have to make sure that you make money and you pay dividends to your shareholders. Our largest single shareholder is about more than ten percent. And when you have the registration, you have a registration to pay dividends. And we have a progressive dividend policy which means every year, regardless of your performance, you keep paying more than the previous year for what is equal. So it's very challenging. So we have these short term.
00:41:55 
Financial target, at the same time you have to look at the long term. And the long term is about, for example, in my case energy transition. And energy transition is all about electrifying more. So moving from you know hydrocarbon to metals that's what's happening. But, you know, minerals like copper. It takes twenty years from discovery to produce the first stop. So you need to have a very long term view, but otherwise. Never ever going to be able to supply, you know, those metals that are essential to the world. So you need to have always have a long term view. And in order to do that, you need to have a very good analytical function in your corporation. And, you have to have a good relationship with the host countries because you're going to have to be there for a long time, and you're going gonna have to take on.
00:42:49 
Reliable partners because you know without partnership, I think in this world is too risky. So we want to share the pain and share the gain, and that's what we're trying to do.
00:42:59 
And, so life is even more complicated for you today. Because in the past, you were more, I mean, maybe more of your employees were of Japanese origin, if even though they live outside. Now that has changed. Yeah. And how does that change what what the organization needs from you? I mean, You know,
00:43:19 
It's basically you have to localize your business. I have mines in Australia, I have mines in Peru, I have mines in Chile, I have mines in Canada and now even in the US. And you're not going to send Japanese in each of these destinations. So, you have to make sure that your business has the ability to attract people locally. So, which means that you have to internationalize, and i'm i know that we're not good enough with it. So there's a lot more things. But a lot of Japanese companies are moving overseas because there is no growth in Japan. There was no growth for the last thirty years. Growth is back, it's still very, very low. So if you want to grow your company, grow your business, you have to go overseas. That's the only solution. That means you have to internationalize and internationalize the workforce;. It's just part of it. Thanks,
00:44:04 
Brigida What does the organization need from you today?
00:44:08 
Yes. So just a few words on what I've been through in the last two years because I think. The context is important. When I took on the role as the CEO, sort of prices were declining, costs were going up. We realized the strategy we had were not sustainable. So I started off by adjusting the strategy, taking down ambition, exiting some technologies, Which was kind of very disappointing for many in the organization that was bought in on this growth journey. Then the next step was to reduce costs and reduce headcount.
00:44:43 
Should ideally have done it quicker, but we were not ready. The organization were not mature. Sort of turning that around, and now it's possible to look ahead. But through that journey, What the organization wanted, they wanted us to stay course and do as we'd said two years ago. And, it was kind of like pretending that the world around us are not changing at all. So, Part of the work for me and my team was really to talk about the external context and how that impacted us. Because this organization had not done any downsizing in like eight nine years, so it was used to growth over the past eight nine years. So, it was really really tough on the organization to turn this around. And of course, it's an ambitious growth strategy in renewables working also.
00:45:37 
Our employees are very motivated by sort of what we do and how we do it. So, with that in mind, now is kind of what they need, I think. For me is I show that we can execute on what we have said. I show that after this quite tough period, there are opportunities ahead and also that I kind of have more confidence in the journey, That I have the answers because I think we have to just take in. But. Things are changing so much. So, although my organization would prefer stability, I can't give it to them. But I can explain them the surroundings, and and I can show the course that we are on and what we want to achieve.
00:46:21 
It sounds like advocating for tell the truth, Consider people as adults that they will understand the truth and don't try and prevaricate.
00:46:34 
And it was interesting because, Norwegians, We have a quite transparent, open style, and we can invite everyone in whether it's it's the top and the bottom of the organization, right? So it's kind of a communication style that at least I bring with me. And, when we were a bit open on kind of what was going on, but not had all the answers, that worked quite well in Norway. But in Southern Europe and in South America they were like," the leaders, they don't have the answer", and it just created a lot of uncertainty.
00:47:04 
And panic yes.
00:47:05 
So, Understanding how the different countries reacted to my communication style was also part of the kind of learning journey at the beginning.
00:47:13 
So, I remember one particular class in which a colleague of mine said," I'm sorry, I don't know how this applies to your business. They all looked at her and went,'What do you mean you don't know?'You know. So I understand that in some contexts it's important to have an answer." Soum I'm going to make a transition and uh unfortunately. As many people in this audience will know, to a hammer everything looks like a nail. So to me, everything is how the leaders manage themselves, right? So I want to come to this last series of conversations and then open it up, maybe uh to the audience as well. So please folks, Enter in your questions on Slido, and we'll be happy to take them for this panel. Now Zeyna, I have to apologize but I've left my iPad lying over there.
00:48:04 
This is one of the things I do because I'm old and I'm allowed to do them. So if you could please give it to me. Right, so let's come to this. All of you face those moments where things don't go according to your plans. Of course, you're used to them all the time. And sometimes the consequences of those are quite significant, right? Either for your organizations, for the welfare of people in your organizations and so on. Thank you so much.
00:48:34 
And this requires you to have strategies for managing yourself, right? What could you tell this audience about your own strategies, Birgitta, about managing yourself for these times of considerable stress? And please don't tell me that you're Norwegian and you will do this anyway.
00:49:01 
For me it's about. Finding what works for me in terms of managing my energy, sort of how do I mix my family life with my work life? When in the day am I best at thinking and when can I do sort of other tasks? I also, when I joined SpotDraft it was on the 15th of March 2020. So it was sort of the day after Norway closed down. So I went straight into managing my team and part of the organization. I was the CEO, then I had a team on Teams, and I said yes and I said yes, And my calendar were piling up because there was all there were all these people that we're going to get to know, etc. And after a while, I just realized this is not going to work. Everyone will ask for my time. If I say yes, I will sort of get exhausted.
00:49:58 
So, I started blocking my calendar in the morning and the afternoon. I said to my assistant, "Within this time space, you manage my calendar. Outside that time space, I would like to know." It's not that I don't do it, but I want to have a control. And for me it's a lot about planning every half year. I kind of do a priority :. What should i focus on personally for this half year? And then I get to match my calendar with that. So what can what are. The one thing is the company's actions and ambitions, but which do I have to engage in personally? And then I use a lot of time to look sort of to plan ahead. And I can see up front that this calendar won't work for me, ; that will make a lot of stress, or this will. And then I kind of try to plan my way out of these situations up front. I think that is for me the solution, and then.
00:50:54 
I'm, not the leader that is in the office at seven and goes home at ten. That doesn't work for me personally.
00:51:01 
So, I want to pick up on two things you said. One, very carefully structured portfolio today: here's where there's flexibility, which you subcontract out to somebody else; here's where I would like control, right? And then a longer- term perspective, which says what is going to happen in these next six months that will make me believe that it was a good six months.
00:51:23 
How much do you work?
00:51:24 
Calendar match, or we'll get into these two perspectives.
00:51:28 
It comes in a way. So I mean, prioritizing times is important for us. I think that's what we should do with the time on Australia, But my case, uh I think I think seven thirty and then eight o'clock here from like how much stress in big issues that in the company, especially Japan, the young kids are really stressed out. So in this town, uh, it certainly depends on what they're working on and how well it's managed as a team. And you have to pass the message. So, what I'm trying to do is that I build this open door policy. My room is open. First of all, I'm not uh I don't have my room on the top floor of the building. I'm with my employees. My room is open, so they can always come in if they want to talk to me. And then you have to show that because otherwise, in Japan, if you shut the door, nobody's going to come and knock your room, right?
00:52:19 
So, So you have to make you have to send the signal that you're willing to to talk. And they can talk to me and if they talk to me, I'll be as transparent as possible. I don't have all the answers today, of course. And the difference between now and you know, uh, the past is that in the past, when everything was data driven, right? You make a decision. And ninety percent of the time people in the world would come to the same conclusion. Sure, right? So it's easy. All our means questions are in but with now The likelihood that fifty percent of people would not agree to your decision is possible or even likely. So, But the only thing you can do is to be very open about what you think and why you made the decision and be transparent because that's the only way people listen. And by doing so, you build trust. And and the trust is super important. But but doing so, I have to allocate some time to spend more time with employees and.
00:53:15 
That's a lot of time at the end of the day, and I end up having a lot of stress. At the beginning, I was trying to find ways not to be stressful, but that's impossible. You have to carry the stress. So then, the question is how are you going to manage your stress? And for me, I am probably not enough disciplined. I like to go out and hang out with my INSEAD friends. Unfortunately, I am one hundred percent Japanese, but I grew up as a child in France and I like good wine. Food. I went to Insead, so you know, some time for Insead is a good way to balance my life. I drink with him.
00:53:53 
Yeah. He sounds fun. Yeah, he's cool. He's very cool. I'm not an alcohol level three about one. I just want to double click on one thing. What, you described as having an open door in the middle of your employees is not usual in most large Japanese organizations. It's not, Were you the first CEO in Mitsubishi Group to do this?
00:54:19 
I don't know. Maybe so. Maybe so.
00:54:21 
What prompted you to do this? Why did you say this was the right thing to do?
00:54:24 
Because, I mean, it's also for me because, you know, if you stop talking to people at the front lines, you have less and less information as a leader. Right. And, you put yourself in a situation where you have to make decisions with little information. Of course, We don't have perfect information at any time, but we want to listen to people who knows what's happening on the ground, right? Yeah. Especially when something's wrong. during the tough times, yes.
00:54:48 
Hiking. but first of all, I need to get some more in- depth friends. he does not seem cool. what? he does not seem cool. So I've kind of building on on what folks were saying hereum I really believe that. You know, At least my sort of philosophy in leading SP and the companies I work for has been to try to be as close to the people on the ground. You know, I am a very good believer in the line organization, and I always say to people, "respect the line. " But. It doesn't mean that the chief executive of the company would not be engaging. You know, at the lowest level. I spent a lot of traveling. I go to our refineries. I used to work with steel industry before this.
00:55:42 
Do safety walks in the refineries or in the steel plants to really see what's happening. And it is just very interesting to understand what the people say, what they talk about, And how the different levels of the organization actually, how much they actually know what's going on. So that's step. It's important to understand what is the true state of affairs. So your question about uncertainty and how you manage. Stress as a senior executive, I think the two things that come to my mind. One is that the more senior you are, You have to have the ability in a situation of crisis among others to rise, to raise your visibility level beyond the situation. which is not always easy, but I think it's incredibly important. The more senior you are, the further you should be able to look. And the second thing is.
00:56:42 
Take the time to think. You know, we all discuss how our calendars are so full. My assistant Mia has sort of a standing rule :. There has to be time for thinking. Because I think in with all the information we get, even though it's now especially now with AI, It's so you know, it's so synthesized. You get a fifty page, you know, PowerPoint deck, and you can get a no five sentence summary if you want or even a one sentence summary. But take the time to think. And try to pull things together. I think many people, They just rush to good habits, and they start losing focus on all the key things.
00:57:21 
Is it. Okay. If I ask you to elaborate a little bit on how disciplined you are? No, no, I think it's useful because immediately you became aspirational for me, and I said, this is what I would like to at least like aspire towards.
00:57:41 
Well, we all have our own habits, right? And I've been lucky to find my own rhythm for leaders. I wake up five thirty in the morning. I cycle for one hour. I have a spinning bike. Most hotels have spinning bikes nowadays, Even here, there was one this morning. It didn't work, unfortunately and And, i and i cycle for an hour, and uh, I changed my. I try to really maintain a very disciplined way of life. The only thing which I have not championed yet is sleeping. And I think, you know, people always say sleep more. You know, our Finnish president, you know he has to sleep eight hours a day. I wish I was him because I can't sleep eight hours a day, even if I want to. But I think sleep is of course incredibly important.
00:58:38 
Maybe one day I will master that as well. But until then, I stay with the. Part.
00:58:46 
Of them is going to adapt, part of them are going to move into the entertainment industry. So, we've had some interesting questions come from the audience and I'd like to put those to you, ladies and gentlemen. The first is: How. Do you select leaders and maximize the chances that you have an elite team? Of leadership, I think it's a good question for everybody. And whoever would like to start, I'd like to hear all your perspectives.
00:59:17 
Well, at least I have an excellent team. I think I recruited half of them over the last two years. I mean it's both understanding what is required in the role, But for me, it's also about finding persons that I can build a personal chemistry with and that i can.
00:59:37 
And Then how do you discover that?
00:59:40 
By spending time with the right candidates at the end, I mean through a process. And then like the final wedding, so to say, Is really to get to know that person a bit through the process and spend time discussing. Of course, the task, but also feeling is this someone I really can give the task, and that person will run with it. And then, of course, in addition, it's to look at the team in total. How does it add up? What are we going to solve as a team? How can people play on each other's strengths? I think it's talking about managing energy, sort of managing our calendars. Having the right team in place for the task at hand is, I think, The most important thing you do in order to have a better life as the CEO.
01:00:35 
And is there something that will be a no- no for you? You see some characteristics and say," Nope,
01:00:40 
This is not going to work for me." Um, I actually had one candidate once that I took on;, he had put something on his CV that wasn't true. Oh, and we realized it through the process; he actually admitted it. That's a no- go for instance. Um, I also i think sort of. It's good to have achieved a lot, but you also need to have some sort of respect for the role ahead. So there is something about being curious, Having a bit respect for what you do and not kind of coming in being the champion already, because I think in the roles, we all have, it doesn't you don't have all the answers. So you have to have a bit of open mind.
01:01:30 
Sure, sure. Thanks. I think we have a slightly different.
01:02:04 
Business, it could be restructuring, it could be divestment. And you try to see whether they can perform in those different roles. But at the end of the day, it's about the person, right? And I think authenticity is super important these days, because otherwise nobody is going to follow you. So you have to make sure that the person is skillful, of course, experienced. But that's not enough; personality is playing a bigger role now.
01:02:32 
Thanks. Thank you.
01:02:33 
A couple of observations. First of all, of course, When you're building an executive team now, I'm talking about the top leadership or corporation, one has to recognize that these are people who are going to be leading large groups of people around the world. So, so there are task related skills, but then there are, of course significant leadership requirements. I've had a i want my career, i when i was younger at one stage. I went out and recruited a lot of external people, and even the board there's often a discussion bringing more talent. Over time, I've had a bias to usually try to recruit from in because I think that institutional knowledge about the firm and the culture is very valuable. It's worth a lot, And it's worth a lot. So so And, you always know more about the people who are in the company than of the people outside the company, no matter how good their CV could be.
01:03:32 
So, I try to look for people who I believe. I ask myself, "Where could I take them within two years?" You know, how much potential is there? And usually organizations, they have these people. ;, you just have to do a bit of legwork to find them, and then you have to train them. I think in a CEO, in some ways, You are playing two roles :. You are kind of the coach ;. You are on the side of the football stadium. But on the other hand, sometimes you're also on the field. Correct. So you're playing two roles. And the challenge here is that as you work under a lot of pressure, how do you develop these people, support them, motivate them but recognize that everybody is there for a purpose? And, you have to be able to make also choices that if a player is not in the right position.
01:04:29 
Change or then if the person is not in the right position at all, you have to remove. And I think it's critical that as CEO, you're able to still maintain that closeness but still maintain that clear distinction between. I mean, ultimately, I'm there to deliver the results and and I need to put together a team who is able to do that. And if the performers certain people don't perform, I need to change. I think For many organizations, it's the changing of the key people at the right time where leaders fail. They recognize the need to change, but they wait and they wait too long. And I think it's critical that these decisions are made right, because the whole organization is watching. The way you lead your executive team is the signal that the rest of your organization takes on how their lower levels need to manage their levels.
01:05:27 
And I think that's why I think the responsibility is sort of multifaceted here.
01:05:33 
So, this is very interesting. About twenty or twenty more years ago, someone I knew quite well at one point wrote a book called" The No," and it's a word that starts with an A, has two letters which I cannot mention, and ends with" hole." So it's called" The No A-- Hole Rule." And they said, whatever you do. Whatever competencies you find, the one thing that would strike somebody out is if they were this thing. Do you agree? And if so, do you find that. You know, that's the one thing. I love when like overachievers or as I call them " gamers " who are like nobody's around when they're five years old saying " bitch." What did you say?
01:06:28 
Life is too short, right? For all of us, right? And I think it's very much with whom we were. That's how many things when I want to drive home. You know what kind of leader we are. Are we Are we fun to work with? If I use that word, you know, I want to work with people from whom I can learn. From whom i can i feel like i get you know, We, are we have a good relationship professional relationship um But when i when I work with them. I don't feel that you know I am drained of energy, but I get energy right. Follow, And so I would prefer to find people, you know if i could, if I could select, I would work with people you know who you know give me energy right. And and I think the uh whatever that word with it started with a, but i think it is it is important to make that the team is healthy. Yes. And then if there are people who are destructive, you know they need to go.
01:07:29 
No, I agree. They didn't. I mean, you can't keep these people, you know, because the whole team is going to collapse. Yeah. Yeah,
01:07:36 
I think it's super important for the team. But the other thing is also what culture is it in that person's organization? How is that person treating his leaders? And again, he's or her leaders. So I should say could have been both genders and sort of how much that impacts impacts. The whole organization that that person is responsible for, And that you almost only see when you change that leader, how important one person at the top is for the whole culture in that business area or staff area. So I think one thing is to work with me and the team, But for me, the biggest concern would be the culture that, that person drives in their own part of the organization.
01:08:24 
I agree because you can't change a culture bottoms up. That's impossible. Those who are at the top say they're not.
01:08:33 
So, I'm going to skip the next question, though it had a lot of votes because you just addressed that hierarchy. And that was anywhere.
01:08:41 
From football and now.
01:08:42 
To business you can think of. And you'd mentioned, you know, A leader is like someone who's like a coach on the side, but also player on the field. So I think that's a great analogy. Let me go to the next question which I think would be quite interesting.
01:08:57 
You are all leaders of today. There is a generation that gets talked about a lot who are going to be leaders of tomorrow. What, do you think they could learn from you? And what do you think they need to learn by themselves? Please,
01:09:16 
Controversial. When I was younger, a long time ago, I'm telling you how time goes, I had a tremendous fear of failure when I graduated from Harvard Business School. I always wanted to not a perfectionist, but I wanted to be really good. I know you went to HBS or something like that. I need an extra year at that, actually. But I had the fear of failure and of making mistakes. And if I look at my career halfway through my career,
01:09:55 
And It was a public. You know, firing our share price fell. You know, it was the financial crisis; it was a tough time. You know, Leaders change and I talk about that openly because I think for me in some ways, I've said the best thing that happened to me as CEO was getting fired because I think I became a better leader. Um, I became more humble. I learned to take the pain of risks, and um and i learned to, i got more comfortable.
01:10:27 
With failing. And I think for young leaders, um, you know, don't be afraid of making mistakes. And sometimes it may be a bit painful, like in my case. But hey look where I got to. So. So so you know, in spite of that, you know, my career actually accelerated tremendously after that. And uhum I think, you know, don't be afraid of making mistakes is really my one lesson.
01:10:53 
And is there something that you would rather they learn by themselves? I don't know Nothing.
01:11:26 
Culture, integrity. You need those basic things. And if you don't have that as a person, as you said, then it's going to be extremely difficult. But how they're going to learn themselves to become leaders is you can give them opportunity, right? To grow. But it's up to them to build themselves.
01:11:50 
I think I was attending this leadership program here in Norway at a quite early age. And. Twenty eight or twenty nine, and you have these groups and kind of getting to know each other. And I think at the time, I had a bit of a naive view that leaders were perfect and everything was working well. And for me, That experience about getting to know leaders at different companies that had different personal histories and faced many challenges. But were very good leaders, and seeing how like different ways.
01:12:25 
Can work and acknowledging that leaders are not perfect and shouldn't be perfect, sort of accepting that you should take mistakes. I think that's an important learning for young ambitious leaders to kind of acknowledge that life has many challenges. And you can also have them being a leader. And then I think for me, what to learn by myself, I rather say what can I learn from them as well. We have something we call the future board where I have, Twelve to eighteen young professionals in the company that I meet four times a year. And last year, I asked them to sort of give me feedback on how senior management and myself communicate to the company. And they were excellent in challenging me. They have so many good things in what they have learned through school about presenting themselves, technology, of course. There are so many things, so respecting what they can contribute with as well instead of.
01:13:25 
Trying to force them into what I have learned in my time.
01:13:29 
Um, I don't know if you've encountered this, But I once encountered a challenge when I was working with the partners of a law firm. In fact, from this part of the world. And they found they had quite high turnovers amongst their associates and others. And I did a little bit of research in the firm, and it turned out that young people see themselves in people who are senior to them. They see that as an aspirational position which they would like to reach. And, it had turned out that a lot of the younger people who were in their thirties were looking at these senior partners in their fifties and saying, "I don't want to be like them." That's so true. So, that is part of the challenge you must manage, right? Any thoughts about that? How you can send that message for example, I had one leader like that, that I wanted to be like.
01:14:29 
But, It's very much also what I talked about to be around in the organization, to talk to people. Also, when I go to different countries, I have what I call an energy exchange. I invite in ten people from the organization and get their perspectives. It's not the senior leaders; I want to hear from the others. So, I think it's really to show that we are interested and then, I also think there are different expectations on how much time you spend at work, et cetera. It's very often two careers you have to balance with family. I think it's also about role modeling that although work is very exciting, it's not kind of the whole life. How I read the younger generation, I think there would be more emphasis on that. And you have to acknowledge that.
01:15:25 
You know, career development is very important. And, what I found difficult these days is that a lot of young people come to me and say, "Look, I want to do this next because of blah blah," right? And that's perfectly fine. And if there's a good reason for them to believe so, I'm happy to provide the opportunity. But at the same time, I tell them that you know if we ask you to move, that's because we see potential in you that you may not see yourself. If you only think about your career by yourself, you know there's a limit to the potential your potential. So I think they need to understand that. And because in my case, I started in a very small business within the company, and there was someone who took a chance on me said, "Look, you can try to do this," and he moved me around. And that's how I managed to come to where I am. So sometimes if you start saying, that's that's the only thing I want to do.
01:16:23 
Maybe you are reducing your own possibility.
01:16:29 
One observation, which if I look at the younger folks, which is very different from my generation in my view, was that when I was young mobility was not an issue. Right. I mean, it was actually something that people were pretty passionate to travel to go to another country. Now with I guess the digital media remote work, Well, that's one of the hardest things we have. For example, how do we get people to transfer? It's very difficult people's willingness on the family level to make the investments that, you know, for example, we made when we were younger. It's completely different. And. So we need to find new ways for these people to get international experience, However, recognizing that maybe the sacrifices that were almost expected as you know, decades ago doesn't.
01:17:21 
Doesn't really happen anymore. It's much harder to motivate people to take them.
01:17:27 
So, I have many more questions here, ladies and gentlemen, But I rather suspect it's getting to that time where illegal drugs like caffeine and sugar would come in handy. So, I don't know if you feel the same way as me, but this has been quite a remarkable conversation. Here are three leaders from three.
01:17:50 
I mean,
01:17:50 
Depends on the opportunities.
01:17:52 
All impacted differently by the nature of the disruption that we see today, Sometimes supply chains and by the accidental loss in import of energy and so on.
01:18:02 
And all of them respond to it how?
01:18:06 
By returning to basics, the essential human characteristics at the roots of all leadership: understanding value, being truthful and transparent, and telling people what it is that you believe. Ladies and gentlemen, please join me in thanking Brigitte, Satoshi, and Heike.